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Bertel Thorvaldsen: Astrological Article and Chart

You will find below the horoscope of Bertel Thorvaldsen with his interactive chart, an excerpt of his astrological portrait and his planetary dominants.

Bertel Thorvaldsen
Author: Carl Joseph Begas
Credits: The Yorck Project (2002) 10.000 Meisterwerke der Malerei (DVD-ROM), distributed by DIRECTMEDIA Publishing GmbH. ISBN: 3936122202.
Licence: Public domain
Date of birth
Monday, November 19, 1770 (time unknown)
City of birth
Copenhagen (Denmark)
Sagittarius
Scorpio
Capricorn
Signs
Jupiter
Mercury
Pluto
Planets
Fire
Water
Elements
9
Birth Path
Views
8,912

This chart is arbitrarily calculated for noon. If you know the time of birth of Bertel Thorvaldsen, please send us your information with your source, at stars@astrotheme.com. To thank you, we shall be glad to send you the portrait (34 pages) of this celebrity, on demand.

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Horoscope and chart of Bertel Thorvaldsen

Astrology chart of Bertel Thorvaldsen Horoscope and birth chart of Bertel Thorvaldsen, born November 19, 1770 (time unknown), Copenhagen (Denmark) 10° 45' 26° 35' 27° 14' 20° 47' 27° 12' 12° 26' 15° 47' 25' 13° 04' 31' 16° 06' 13° 47'
Select an object to display more information
Aries
Taurus
Gemini
Cancer
Leo
Virgo
Libra
Scorpio
Sagittarius
Capricorn
Aquarius
Pisces
Sun 27°14' Scorpio
Sun Aspects
Sun conjunction Midheaven orb 3°30'
Sun semi-sextile Jupiter orb 0°02'
Sun semi-square Venus orb 0°12'
Sun quintile Neptune orb 1°26'
Sun sextile Ascendant orb 6°22'
Moon 20°47' Sagittarius
Moon Aspects
Moon conjunction Jupiter orb 6°24'
Moon trine Saturn orb 4°41'
Moon semi-sextile Ascendant orb 0°04'
Moon square Neptune orb 6°59'
Mercury 10°45' Scorpio
Mercury Aspects
Mercury opposite Uranus orb 2°19'
Mercury sextile Venus orb 1°41'
Mercury square Saturn orb 5°20'
Mercury sextile Neptune orb 3°02'
Mercury sextile Pluto orb 5°01'
Mercury semi-square Jupiter orb 1°26'
Venus 12°26' Capricorn
Venus Aspects
Venus conjunction Pluto orb 3°20'
Venus trine Uranus orb 0°37'
Venus trine Neptune orb 1°21'
Sun semi-square Venus orb 0°12'
Mercury sextile Venus orb 1°41'
Venus conjunction Ascendant orb 8°25'
Mars 1°31' Я Cancer
Mars Aspects
Mars opposite Jupiter orb 4°19'
Mars inconjunction Midheaven orb 0°47'
Mars semi-square Saturn orb 0°25'
Mars quintile Neptune orb 0°15'
Jupiter 27°12' Sagittarius
Jupiter Aspects
Moon conjunction Jupiter orb 6°24'
Mars opposite Jupiter orb 4°19'
Sun semi-sextile Jupiter orb 0°02'
Jupiter sesqui-quadrate Uranus orb 0°52'
Mercury semi-square Jupiter orb 1°26'
Saturn 16°06' Leo
Saturn Aspects
Moon trine Saturn orb 4°41'
Saturn inconjunction Pluto orb 0°18'
Saturn square Uranus orb 3°01'
Mercury square Saturn orb 5°20'
Mars semi-square Saturn orb 0°25'
Uranus 13°04' Я Taurus
Uranus Aspects
Venus trine Uranus orb 0°37'
Mercury opposite Uranus orb 2°19'
Uranus trine Neptune orb 0°43'
Uranus trine Pluto orb 2°42'
Saturn square Uranus orb 3°01'
Jupiter sesqui-quadrate Uranus orb 0°52'
Uranus trine Ascendant orb 7°47'
Neptune 13°47' Virgo
Neptune Aspects
Neptune trine Pluto orb 1°59'
Venus trine Neptune orb 1°21'
Uranus trine Neptune orb 0°43'
Mercury sextile Neptune orb 3°02'
Mars quintile Neptune orb 0°15'
Moon square Neptune orb 6°59'
Neptune trine Ascendant orb 7°04'
Sun quintile Neptune orb 1°26'
Pluto 15°47' Capricorn
Pluto Aspects
Venus conjunction Pluto orb 3°20'
Pluto conjunction Ascendant orb 5°04'
Neptune trine Pluto orb 1°59'
Uranus trine Pluto orb 2°42'
Saturn inconjunction Pluto orb 0°18'
Pluto semi-square Midheaven orb 0°02'
Mercury sextile Pluto orb 5°01'
North Node 26°35' Я Scorpio
Lilith 7°25' Я Aquarius
Display Parameters
Calculation Parameters

Biography of Bertel Thorvaldsen (excerpt)

(Albert) Bertel Thorvaldsen (19 November 1770 – 24 March 1844) was a Danish / Icelandic sculptor.

Thorvaldsen was born in Copenhagen in 1770 (according to some accounts, in 1768), the son of an Icelander who had settled in Denmark and there carried on the trade of a wood-carver. This account is disputed by some Icelanders, who claim Thorvaldsen was born in Iceland. Thorvaldsen had claimed descent from Snorri Thorfinnsson, the first European born in America.

Young Thorvaldsen attended Copenhagen's Royal Danish Academy of Art (Det Kongelige Danske Kunstakademi), winning all the prizes including the large Gold Medal. As a consequence, he was granted a Royal stipend, enabling him to complete his studies in Rome, where he arrived on 8 March 1797.

Astrological portrait of Bertel Thorvaldsen (excerpt)

Disclaimer: these short excerpts of astrological charts are computer processed. They are, by no means, of a personal nature. This principle is valid for the celebrities included in our database. These texts provide the meanings of planets, or combination of planets, in signs and in houses, as well as the interpretations of planetary dominants in line with modern Western astrology rules. Moreover, since Astrotheme is not a polemic website, no negative aspect which may damage the good reputation of a celebrity is posted here, unlike in the comprehensive astrological portrait.

Introduction

Here are some character traits from Bertel Thorvaldsen's birth chart. This description is far from being comprehensive but it can shed light on his/her personality, which is still interesting for professional astrologers or astrology lovers.

N.B.: as this celebrity's birth time is unknown, the chart is arbitrarily calculated for 12:00 PM - the legal time for his/her place of birth; since astrological houses are not taken into account, this astrological profile excerpt is less detailed than those for which the birth time is known.

In a matter of minutes, you can get at your email address your astrological portrait (approximately 32 pages), a much more comprehensive report than this portrait of Bertel Thorvaldsen.

The dominant planets of Bertel Thorvaldsen

When interpreting a natal chart, the best method is to start gradually from general features to specific ones. Thus, there is usually a plan to be followed, from the overall analysis of the chart and its structure, to the description of its different character traits.

In the first part, an overall analysis of the chart enables us to figure out the personality's main features and to emphasize several points that are confirmed or not in the detailed analysis: in any case, those general traits are taken into account. Human personality is an infinitely intricate entity and describing it is a complex task. Claiming to rapidly summarize it is illusory, although it does not mean that it is an impossible challenge. It is essential to read a natal chart several times in order to absorb all its different meanings and to grasp all this complexity. But the exercise is worthwhile.

In brief, a natal chart is composed of ten planets: two luminaries, the Sun and the Moon, three fast-moving or individual planets, Mercury, Venus and Mars, two slow-moving planets, Jupiter and Saturn, and three very slow-moving planets, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Additional secondary elements are: the Lunar Nodes, the Dark Moon or Lilith, Chiron and other minor objects. They are all posited on the Zodiac wheel consisting of twelve signs, from Aries to Pisces, and divided into twelve astrological houses.

The first step is to evaluate the importance of each planet. This is what we call identifying the dominant planets. This process obeys rules that depend on the astrologer's sensitivity and experience but it also has precise and steady bases: thus, we can take into account the parameters of a planet's activity (the number of active aspects a planet forms, the importance of each aspect according to its nature and its exactness), angularity parameters; (proximity to the four angles, Ascendant, Midheaven, Descendant and Imum Coeli or Nadir, all of them being evaluated numerically, according to the kind of angle and the planet-angle distance) and quality parameters (rulership, exaltation, exile and fall). Finally, other criteria such as the rulership of the Ascendant and the Midheaven etc. are important.

These different criteria allow a planet to be highlighted and lead to useful conclusions when interpreting the chart.

The overall chart analysis begins with the observation of three sorts of planetary distributions in the chart: Eastern or Western hemisphere, Northern or Southern hemisphere, and quadrants (North-eastern, North-western, South-eastern and South-western). These three distributions give a general tone in terms of introversion and extraversion, willpower, sociability, and behavioural predispositions.

Then, there are three additional distributions: elements (called triplicity since there are three groups of signs for each one) - Fire, Air, Earth and Water - corresponding to a character typology, modality (or quadruplicity with four groups of signs for each one) - Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable - and polarity (Yin and Yang).

There are three types of dominants: dominant planets, dominant signs and dominant houses. The novice thinks astrology means only "to be Aries" or sometimes, for example, "to be Aries Ascendant Virgo". It is actually far more complex. Although the Sun and the Ascendant alone may reveal a large part of the character - approximately a third or a half of your psychological signature, a person is neither "just the Sun" (called the sign) nor just "the first house" (the Ascendant). Thus, a particular planet's influence may be significantly increased; a particular sign or house may contain a group of planets that will bring nuances and sometimes weaken the role of the Ascendant, of the Sun sign etc.

Lastly, there are two other criteria: accentuations (angular, succedent and cadent) which are a classification of astrological houses and types of decanates that are occupied (each sign is divided into three decanates of ten degrees each). They provide some additional informations.

These general character traits must not be taken literally; they are, somehow, preparing for the chart reading. They allow to understand the second part of the analysis, which is more detailed and precise. It focuses on every area of the personality and provides a synthesis of all the above-mentioned parameters according to sound hierarchical rules.

Warning: when the birth time is unknown, which is the case for Bertel Thorvaldsen, a few paragraphs become irrelevant; distributions in hemispheres and quadrants are meaningless, so are dominant houses and houses' accentuations. Therefore, some chapters are removed from this part.

For all paragraphs, the criteria for valuation are calculated without taking into account angles and rulerships of the Ascendant and of the Midheaven. The methodology retains its validity, but it is less precise without a time of birth.

Elements and Modes for Bertel Thorvaldsen

The Four Elements for Bertel Thorvaldsen: Astrology, Free Horoscope, Planets, Dominant Planets, Natal Chart

Bertel Thorvaldsen, Fire is dominant in your natal chart and endows you with intuition, energy, courage, self-confidence, and enthusiasm! You are inclined to be passionate, you assert your willpower, you move forward, and come hell or high water, you achieve your dreams and your goals. The relative weakness of this element is the difficulty to step back or a kind of boldness that may prompt you to do foolish things.

The predominance of Water signs indicates high sensitivity and elevation through feelings, Bertel Thorvaldsen. Your heart and your emotions are your driving forces, and you can't do anything on Earth if you don't feel a strong affective charge (as a matter of fact, the word "feeling" is essential in your psychology). You need to love in order to understand, and to feel in order to take action, which causes a certain vulnerability which you should fight against.

Air is under-represented in your natal chart, with only 0.00% instead of the average 25%. Air symbolizes the values of communication, exchanges with others, but also adaptability and flexibility abilities: if you don't get out of your cocoon to talk, to show interest in others, and to socialize, you may have problems understanding others. Because of your lack of flexibility or of your refusal to adapt yourself, you may be suddenly overwhelmed by events. You should get into the habit of talking, of phoning, and of thinking in terms of "mobility, flexibility, adaptability, change" in every circumstance. It will spare you so many troubles!

The twelve zodiacal signs are split up into three groups or modes, called quadruplicities, a learned word meaning only that these three groups include four signs. The Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable modes are more or less represented in your natal chart, depending on planets' positions and importance, and on angles in the twelve signs.

The Three Modes for Bertel Thorvaldsen: Astrology, Free Horoscope, Planets, Dominant Planets, Natal Chart

The Fixed mode corresponds to a majority of elements in your chart, Bertel Thorvaldsen, and represents the desire for security and durability: you are able to concretely appreciate a situation and its stability. You definitely prefer to play the role of a loyal, obstinate and hard-working person, rather than to try new and risky experiences - beware, however, not to confuse obstinacy with intransigence. You structure, cement, and strengthen everything you find on your way: it is your nature, although you are not especially interested in swiftness: slow and steady...

Dominants: Planets, Signs and Houses for Bertel Thorvaldsen

The issue of dominant planets has existed since the mists of time in astrology: how nice it would be if a person could be described with a few words and one or several planets that would represent their character, without having to analyse such elements as rulerships, angularities, houses, etc!

The ten planets - the Sun throughout Pluto - are a bit like ten characters in a role-play, each one has its own personality, its own way of acting, its own strengths and weaknesses. They actually represent a classification into ten distinct personalities, and astrologers have always tried to associate one or several dominant planets to a natal chart as well as dominant signs and houses.

Indeed, it is quite the same situation with signs and houses. If planets symbolize characters, signs represent hues - the mental, emotional and physical structures of an individual. The sign in which a planet is posited is like a character whose features are modified according to the place where he lives. In a chart, there are usually one, two or three highlighted signs that allow to rapidly describe its owner.

Regarding astrological houses, the principle is even simpler: the twelve houses correspond to twelve fields of life, and planets tenanting any given house increase that house's importance and highlight all relevant life departments: it may be marriage, work, friendship etc.

In your natal chart, Bertel Thorvaldsen, the ten main planets are distributed as follows:

Dominant Planets for Bertel Thorvaldsen: Astrology, Free Horoscope, Planets, Dominant Planets, Natal Chart

The three most important planets in your chart are Jupiter, Mercury and Pluto.

Jupiter, the planet of expansion, organization, power and benevolence, is quite emphasized in your chart. Like any Jupiterian, you are warm, open, sociable, consensual, active and optimistic. You can use your self-confidence to erase differences of opinion, and you leave the task of analyzing and perfecting things to specialists. Your role, and you know it since you were young, is to gather, to demonstrate your synthesizing and conciliatory mind, and to naturally reap its fruits - power.

You appreciate legality, social order but also order in general. With you as a leader, every plan or human entity can be organized and structured. You excel at supervising. The Jupiterian type is indeed the politician par excellence, and a positive Jupiter in your chart is synonymous with good integration into society, whatever the chosen path.

Is this idyllic picture really perfect? Certainly not: each planet's typology has its own weaknesses. One of yours is pride, like the Solarian, but your will of expansion at all costs may generate a form of exaggeration in everything, endless pleasure, inappropriate self-confidence that could lead you to rough materialism and the thirst for absurd material comfort - in the worst cases, of course.

With Mercury among your dominant planets, you are certainly cerebral, nervous, swift, curious, quick-witted, and you love to communicate. Your psychological pattern is intellectual, all the more so since Mercury is important, with its whole set of assets but also of weaknesses, obviously.

Your sensitivity, emotions, and heart's impulses give precedence to thinking, which can lead people to believe that you are a playful and witty but heartless person, intellectualizing situations and juggling with words and numbers whilst ignoring human aspects of things. Of course, it is said that cats always land on their feet - this is your Mercurian strength and your trump card!

Your weakness lies in your nervousness, and you may miss your goal because of your "over-intellectualization" that may be detrimental to other kind of energies such as instinct, spontaneity, heart, sensitivity, etc.

With Pluto as a dominant planet in your chart, you are a magnetic and mighty predator, like the Scorpio sign ruled by this planet, who needs to exert pressure on others in order to "test" them. You are always ready to evolve, to risk destruction for reconstruction - including your own - to live more intensely whilst imposing your secret authority on things and on people you encounter.

You may come across as wicked, cruel or too authoritarian, but actually you only follow your instinct, you sound people out, and you like to exert your domination simply because your vital energy is too powerful to remain inside. You are inclined to be passionate, with hidden motivations. You are sometimes misunderstood but one of your great Plutonian assets is to go successfully through each life ordeal with ever growing strength.

Dominant Signs for Bertel Thorvaldsen: Astrology, Free Horoscope, Planets, Dominant Planets, Natal Chart

In your natal chart, the three most important signs - according to criteria mentioned above - are in decreasing order of strength Sagittarius, Scorpio and Capricorn. In general, these signs are important because your Ascendant or your Sun is located there. But this is not always the case: there may be a cluster of planets, or a planet may be near an angle other than the Midheaven or Ascendant. It may also be because two or three planets are considered to be very active because they form numerous aspects from these signs.

Thus, you display some of the three signs' characteristics, a bit like a superposition of features on the rest of your chart, and it is all the more so if the sign is emphasized.

Sagittarius, an adventurous and conquering fire sign, is dominant in your chart: you are enthusiastic, enterprising, optimistic, very sociable, and mobile - you have itchy feet, both physically and mentally. Nobody gets bored with you because you are always planning things and suggesting excursions, at least... when you are around and not already gone on a trip! Obviously, so many movements for one man may scare people off, and some of them may even criticize your brutality or your tendency to loose your temper, but you are so warm and genuine, so expansive, isn't this a good thing? And all the more so, since your sense of humour is overwhelming...

With Scorpio as a dominant sign, you are a strong and astute person, complicated and passionate, sometimes destructive and intolerant, but strong-willed, tough and daring, sometimes bordering on aggressive. So many qualities and dangers combined in one person! Obviously, this often results in a natural selection of people around you: those who stand up to you or admire you and those who can't bear you anymore! But that is precisely what you want. You are what you are and you are not going to transform yourself just to please. You are too proud and you never dread confrontations, although your way of fighting is secret, like your nature that, mysteriously enough, you are so reluctant to reveal even to your close friends who will never understand you. That said... what a hellish charm you have!

Capricorn is one of your dominant signs and endows you with a grave and serious style that seems to stick to you constantly. But if you have that reserved and cold side - as some extrovert people may think - on the other hand, you possess sturdy qualities: you are strong-willed and tough. Your long-term vision, your sense of duty, and your ambition are not affected by the derisory and erratic motions that seem to upset most mortals less steady than you. Besides, you are like a good wine, you age well and your natural solemnity or serious side paradoxically turns into an almost cheerful appearance, as you grow older. You are actually very sensitive when it comes to love. Faithful, caring, sweet, and sensitive, your behaviour is very different in your everyday, sentimental life. A golden heart beats under your tough and austere appearance...

After this paragraph about dominant planets, of Bertel Thorvaldsen, here are the character traits that you must read more carefully than the previous texts since they are very specific: the texts about dominant planets only give background information about the personality and remain quite general: they emphasize or, on the contrary, mitigate different particularities or facets of a personality. A human being is a complex whole and only bodies of texts can attempt to successfully figure out all the finer points.

The Moon in Sagittarius: his sensitivity

D'une nature optimiste et émotive, vous êtes, Bertel Thorvaldsen, pris entre deux envies quelque peu incompatibles : vous êtes friand d'exotisme et d'indépendance, de mouvement, mais en même temps vous vous sentez bien dans une forme d'embourgeoisement et de conformisme de votre comportement ; en général, cela se traduit par une succession d'états d'âme tantôt tranquilles et bien adaptés aux différentes situations que vous rencontrez, tantôt empreints d'une envie irrésistible de changement et de renouveau. Plutôt d'une nature bon enfant presque naïve, vous avez confiance en vous et votre grande émotivité vous pousse à vivre intensément et avec variété des expériences émotionnelles d'une façon un peu dispersée mais qui, de toute façon, vous amènent les stimulations dont vous avez besoin pour être équilibré. Grâce à cette  attitude plutôt sympathique et avenante, vous bénéficiez d'une certaine popularité et cela d'autant plus que malgré votre soif d'aventures qui pourrait en effaroucher d'aucuns, vous vous adaptez aisément aux règles et usages du milieu dans lequel vous évoluez.

Mercury in Scorpio: his intellect and social life

Vous êtes Bertel Thorvaldsen le type même du chercheur doté de grandes possibilités intellectuelles et imaginatives et d'une curiosité profonde. La recherche, les énigmes et les mystères vous passionnent et grâce à votre flair et votre intuition remarquables, vous cherchez à traquer sans fin la vérité, quels que soient les domaines, comme le feraient un psychanalyste ou un détective. Vous êtes cependant quelqu'un de très secret, plutôt introverti, qui éprouve des difficultés à se livrer et préfère souvent l'auto-analyse. Très lucide pour comprendre les mécanismes de chacun, vous avez pourtant du mal à communiquer : votre esprit critique teinté d'ironie et de causticité peut se montrer destructeur, d'autant que, plus que déterminé et obstiné, vous n'aimez pas céder. Vous aimez provoquer et pratiquez assez bien la contradiction et même si l'on vous trouve de mauvaise foi, il sera difficile de vous prendre en défaut.

Venus in Capricorn and the Sun in Scorpio: his affectivity and seductiveness

Dans votre thème, le Soleil est en Scorpion, Vénus en Capricorne. Vos signes solaire et vénusien ont en commun une indéniable faculté de résister, de s'affranchir des jugements extérieurs. Vos comportements amoureux traduisent une forte volonté de rester vous-même, envers et contre tout. Bien sûr, il vous faut parfois vous plier aux conventions, et céder aux exigences de votre partenaire. Mais c'est alors toujours avec une certaine réticence, ou à contre-coeur. Pour vous, la vie de couple ne saurait être un renoncement aux valeurs qui vous sont propres. Vous manquerez parfois de souplesse dans vos jugements, manifestant une intransigeance que votre partenaire supportera différemment selon son caractère. Mais vous savez mieux que quiconque rester fidèle à vos principes, garder une même ligne de conduite quelques soient les circonstances. Vous avez peut-être tendance à compliquer les situations, ou à accentuer les éventuels problèmes. Mais c'est là sans doute le revers de la médaille d'une honnêteté hors pair, et votre manière d'exprimer le désir d'un amour absolu, sans faille, inaccessible pour certains... Idéaliste, vous adoptez fréquemment des attitudes tranchées, chassant les compromis boiteux pour vivre pleinement vos passions.

Bertel Thorvaldsen, il est clair que vous ne tombez pas très facilement amoureux. Mais quand c'est le cas, vos sentiments sont profonds, paisibles, sérieux et surtout durables. Le besoin de sécurité dont vous ne pouvez en aucun cas vous passer pour vous sentir bien et vous donner, vous l'offrez en retour avec stabilité et devoir même si vous mélangez un peu il est vrai la responsabilité avec l'amour. Pour vous, le charme de votre partenaire est constitué non pas seulement de ses attraits physiques ou de l'attirance sentimentale qu'il suscite, mais aussi de ses qualités intellectuelles et morales : vous avez un besoin farouche d'authenticité et de sérieux, car vous êtes vous-même comme cela. Vos amours sont en général peu nombreuses et c'est sur le tard souvent que vous pourrez enfin exprimer au mieux ce que vous avez en vous et qui mérite véritablement le détour tant vos sentiments peuvent être paisibles et stables. Le risque pour vous si jamais vous n'obtenez pas ce que vous souhaitez est de vous réfugier dans un certain cynisme ou de vous refermer sur vous-même.

The Sun in Scorpio: his will and inner motivations

Mars in Cancer: his ability to take action

Plus sensible que vous est difficile, Bertel Thorvaldsen, ce qui fait que vous pouvez souvent contenir une certaine agressivité que vous aurez en général du mal à extérioriser. Vous êtes habituellement plutôt passif et votre force tient davantage de l'inertie et de la résistance que du déploiement vers l'action. Vous êtes d'humeur changeante et comme vous ne montrez que peu de choses de vous, vous surprenez en réagissant à contre-temps, si tardivement alors que les autres n'ont plus le souvenir de ce qui vous avait troublé à l'origine. Le seul domaine où vous pouvez avec bonheur exprimer toute votre ardeur ou votre action est celui de votre foyer ou, dans un sens plus symbolique, dans le domaine que vous avez sécurisé auparavant : en d'autres mots, vous avez besoin de confiance pour agir, dans le domaine concret aussi bien que celui de votre sexualité.

Conclusion

This text is only an excerpt from the portrait of of Bertel Thorvaldsen, which we hope will inspire you to deepen your knowledge of astrology.

Since the birth time is unknown,, these portrait excerpts do not take into account the parameters derived from the time, which means, the domification (Ascendant, astrological houses, etc.). Nonetheless, these analyses remain accurate in any case.

Regarding the sources of the birth data in our possession, kindly note that the pages we publish constitute a starting point for more detailed research, even though they seem useful to us. When the sources are contradictory, which occurs rarely, after having analysed them, we choose the most reliable one. Sometimes, we publish a birth date just because it is made available, but we do not claim that is it the best one, by no means.